Sun 4 Jan 2015

Software that compliments Loomio

Jacob Gadikian Public Seen by 546

I've a list ,and I'd love it if people could add to it as they see fit:

  • Loomio
  • Swarmops
  • Metamind.cc
  • Discourse
  • Diaspora
  • Valnet
  • Cobudget
  • Hylo
  • DemocracyOS
  • Polis
  • Odoo ** CRM ** ERP ** Web sites ** Tasks, collabware, expansive!
  • ArkOS.io

Now, I do not know of any program that does what loomio does, as well as loomio does. What are your needs like in terms of programming? It's pretty likely that it won't just be Dan and I here for much longer, and at that time, we'd love to help. Sorry about the docker-- with our HW release coming up, I haven't had time to take care of it just yet. The reason I am asking this is that I would like to have a survey of the marketplace in apps that are useful to business/activisim organizations using a modular, network configuration.




Does anyone have a name/category for "The kind of application that these are" determined yet?


Alanna Irving Sun 4 Jan 2015

Are you looking specifically for FOSS? Or any collaboration apps?

Some apps Loomio is currently collaborating with or talking about collaborating with...





Some apps we use:

  • Trello
  • Google Docs
  • Slack
  • GitHub

Jacob Gadikian Sun 4 Jan 2015

FOSS is best indeed. Thanks for the information Ananna :)!


Matthew Bartlett Tue 6 Jan 2015

HipChat — for ephemeral realtime chat


Daniel Nephin Tue 6 Jan 2015

Does anyone have a name/category for “The kind of application that these are” determined yet?

Group decision making software ?


Jacob Gadikian Wed 7 Jan 2015

Can you tell me what is good about hipchat? I ask because I positively hate it, not on a philosophical level but instead on a functional level.

Also Dawn is still chasing that holy grail of web apps: anyone know the best replacement for google apps?

By the way I was nowhere near descriptive about dawns hardware in my earlier post. It is a "stick PC" whose mission in life is not to be a stick PC, but instead to run localized apps. I'd like to put loomio on one, sell it, and split the proceeds between our causes. Interested?


Matthew Bartlett Wed 7 Jan 2015

@jacobgadikian re. Hipchat: I often work remotely from other Loomio team members, and I like being able to e.g. ask questions of them and get a quick answer, whether I'm at my computer or via my phone. I find the notifications style works well for me — @mentions that send an email if the person is not online. I like the integrations (with e.g. Github, Travis, Airbrake), so I can get a bit of sense of what's happening with our codebase.


Jacob Gadikian started a proposal Tue 13 Jan 2015

Define a set of software to put on a group collaboration stick, sell the thing, donate half the proceeds to the SW devs Closed Fri 16 Jan 2015

by Jacob Gadikian Mon 27 Feb 2017

Our web site was down for a good portion that this proposal was open. I am going to run the vote again, once I get it back up. Thanks!

So okay we've got all of this group decision-making/accounting/value allocation software. I've got this stick(fenixer.org), that I fancy as a server. I'd like to do what the title suggests, and give half of the proceeds to the software developers. I see this useful in these cases, and probably others I haven't thought of:

-Small business
-"swarm" politics
-"Swarm" information campaigns
-Event planning

I think that this is a simple yes or no. I just want to have consent from the community before I go and sell their awesome open code.

Agree - 4
Abstain - 4
Disagree - 4
Block - 4
5 people have voted (0%)

Alanna Irving
Tue 13 Jan 2015

I think it sounds pretty rad. I hope there's also a way to provide it for free to users who really need it.


Ben Burton
Tue 13 Jan 2015

I believe Loomio could use a revenue source and the world could be helped by such a tool.


Jacob Gadikian
Tue 13 Jan 2015

I dont see how anyone loses, but I do see how it helps :).


Brandon Burns
Tue 13 Jan 2015


Green Party Toronto
Wed 14 Jan 2015

This idea is premature.


Gray Tue 13 Jan 2015

Suggest also making it thinstall or portable versions so entire can run from encrypted usb/micro sd card ? For those more delicate situations/domiciles/prefectures......


Joum Tue 13 Jan 2015

Is a Fenix something like a raspberry pi?


Jacob Gadikian Tue 13 Jan 2015

I like this idea very much. Fenix is fairly innocuous looking. Here’s my official list of use-cases for the lil fella:

No mods needed

  • Paired, encrypted cloud server
  • App on a stick
  • Personal dashboard connected to television or simply as a WiFi or ipv6 node. Make sure you explain that v6 devices are directly addressable.
  • Crypto wallet
  • Crypto wallet full of cash mailed when you order something
  • Digital signage
  • Gateway device for* Hyperboria
  • Storj
  • Ethereum
  • Maidsafe
  • Freenet
  • Tor

  • Portable collaboration server* Metamaps

  • Loomio

  • Ethersuite* Ethersheets

  • Etherpad

  • Mailpile

  • Physical password token

  • Encrypted communications tool (paired or meshed at the factory)* Telephony

  • Video if user connects webcam

  • Sensor monitor that uploads results to www.

  • Academic computing stations @ low cost high reliability. Can ask Gouwa to price keyboard mouse and monitor.

  • Camera controller & stream broadcaster for surveillance systems

  • Backup system with external HDD and btsync

  • Hardware learning platform

  • Component in third party projects

Use cases requiring hw modification
1) Low power high density fully isolated servers (make HDMI into Ethernet port supporting PoE. Remove all of the other ports.)2) Music server (requires at least the addition of a 3.5mm jack)3) Audio recording / mixing station. (2x 3.5mm jacks)


Jacob Gadikian Tue 13 Jan 2015

free is a trouble in hardware, but since I’m trying to make this all about the devs, let’s go with it: I’ll include an option for purchasers to buy a second one at a reduced price, which can be allocated to a set of units for groups who request them…? (sound good?)


Joshua Vial Tue 13 Jan 2015

Came across https://www.odoo.com/ yesterday which looked interesting.


Jacob Gadikian Wed 14 Jan 2015


It’s not too terribly hard to implement, and the HW is ready to go. Can you explain how it’s premature, please?




Jacob Gadikian Wed 14 Jan 2015

Odoo looked good, until I blew up my gcloud. I'll put it on the list!


Gray Thu 15 Jan 2015

Interesting comparison to Pocket who have done a similar package deal on related apps etc.


Clark Davison Thu 15 Jan 2015

@jacobgadikian FYI fenixer.org is giving a 404 and I can't find any information about it at all


Jacob Gadikian Fri 16 Jan 2015

Alanna, we suffered a server explosion last night (2 nights ago in fact.... This message didn't send the first time around. I am going to do another proposal so everyone can access our info. Glad I checked the thread! Here is a link to our fb page for the interim:

https://www.facebook.com/fenixhw ( https://www.facebook.com/fenixhw )

Imagine it will be back up this evening.




Jacob Gadikian Fri 16 Jan 2015


Hey alan, got your name wrong there. Site should be up in the next few hours, and thank you for the heads up :)!


Clark Davison Fri 16 Jan 2015

@jacobgadikian - No problem, I am glad I could help. Perhaps it would be wise to set up a "monitor" on your site to automate the process of giving you alerts.


Joum Sun 18 Jan 2015

Thanks for the FB link. I see an answer to my question there.

Why is our product different from Raspberry Pi?

We run 4x FASTER! Your projects and builds are endless when we get our open-source ROM repository coming.

In the meantime, if you would like to get a sneak peek at our first version, you can purchase one for $99 USD.

Sounds good.


Steve Phillips / @elimisteve Sun 18 Jan 2015

@jacobgadikian One of my favorite projects is arkOS, which is basically a Linux distro that runs on a Raspberry Pi (and similar devices) that allows everyone to self-host the web services they need!

In order words, instead of giving Google/FB/etc your data/email/messages/files/etc just so you can access them over the internet, arkOS makes it easy to host all that at your home then access all that over the web without giving it to anyone else.

Awesome idea, and great execution so far!

So anyway, having arkOS run Loomio, Etherpad, and any other privacy- or collaboration-related tools seems ideal to me :-).

Ask not what other software can do for Loomio, as what Loomio can do for your personal cloud.


Jacob Gadikian Mon 19 Jan 2015

Phew! Back up now.


Jacob Gadikian Mon 19 Jan 2015

@elimisteve , thank you for your support!

I am putting arkos on the list and beginning to figure out how to port it. Can anyone suggest how we price something like this?

Thanks to all for their suggestions & inspiration!


Clark Davison Mon 19 Jan 2015

@jacobgadikian - yes the site is back up and I had a quick look, following on from @lbjoum 's comment about the specs I was trying to follow the link when I found it didn't work, nor do any of the others in that section.

Linux Kernel Source
Design Schematics
Bill of Materials

All the links point to http://fenixer.org/index.html#

Just another "heads-up"


Jacob Gadikian Mon 19 Jan 2015

Site is a major work in progress. When you see the final version of the ordering system, you’ll get why. Sorry about delays in the meantime. If you’ve got any questions, I’m always happy to answer by whatever medium you find convenient.

Is there something major I am missing? We were not going to sell on spec, but since there is talk of specs, here’s 100% full disclosure on them (do you think we should put them on the front page after all?)

RK3188T SoC (Quad core, 1.3ghz)
8GB ROM storage
802.11n Wireless connectivity
1 Full-size USB port
1 MicroUSB - power in only (2a)
HDMI out
Fenix comes with or without an “air mouse”
Fenix has no problems with supporting a 4-port USB hub

If you’ve used similar devices, please know that the distinctions with Fenix are size and board quality— it’s Teeny, and the board is a full redesign of the typical 3188— not just another reimplementation of the rockchip boilerplate design. When I saw the PCB layout for the first time, I was pretty much in awe of what my friend in Shenzhen had done; reimplementing the entire design and reducing size & component count to a fraction of what they’d been previously.

There are faster boards. There are even faster boards that are cheaper. I still like this board best :).




Clark Davison Mon 19 Jan 2015

@jacobgadikian - thanks for the info, much appreciated.

When it comes to "stick-pcs" and there are more appearing on the market all the time the spec is important to technical people. I am not saying it has to be front and center on the web site but if there is a link that says "Specification" and it doesn't take you to the specs then that is a bad start - even a picture with the basic numbers around the outside would be a good start.

I appreciate that this is still a work in progress and it may help you to be upfront about that right from the start something like

"We are working hard to deliver a truly amazing web experience to showcase Fenix ... (something along those lines) ... in the meantime we would like to share what we have so far and welcome your feedback.."

Perhaps put a couple on eBay and have a link to them on the Buy it page, for those not ready to purchase through your site ...

These stick / dongle / tv-pc devices are something I am very interested in. I like your localized app concept but your earlier posts seem to indicate a localized server.

Hope this helps.


Clark Davison Fri 23 Jan 2015

@jacobgadikian - I am involved in other discussions and testing other software tools and resources that my be worthy of inclusion on your Fenix.

It may be that your resources don't have to be explicitly "loaded" onto your device. Simply have a "Start Page" that the user can localize. The content / application list could then be populated from a filtered database query based on user location. Some apps and resources (links) would be global, others would be region specific.

@dnephin @lbjoum @elimisteve @Gray @alanna - I am inviting people to suggest tools using the following link:

Suggest Tools and Resources that will change the Democratic system

The back-end is currently a spreadsheet but will be imported into a database to feed a web site that I am currently referring to as a "Resource Hub" until a more appropriate name can be determined and domain name registered.

If you submit a form it is designed to give you access to the other previous entries.


Jacob Gadikian Sun 25 Jan 2015


Great idea about ebay! Thank you! I don't know if there are many cryptocurrency collectors here, but Fenix is currently available on NXT's marketplace, too.


Steven Clift Tue 27 Jan 2015

http://GroupServer.org should be on open source your radar. It both complements and crosses over with Loomio.

I can envision my NGO http://E-Democracy.org encouraging people to use Loomio as a "do something" tool that spins projects out of our lively online neighborhood communities. Example http://e-democracy.org/se

If you are looking for a simple open source replacement for Google Groups and/or something more web friendly than Mailman, GroupServer is worth a close look.


Ryan Sun 1 Feb 2015

We use Loomio with Trello. (LibreBoard and Taiga.io are some great FOSS alternatives.) I'd love to see Loomio integration with any of these.


Jacob Gadikian Sat 7 Feb 2015

Fenixer is in tech product voodoo land to return when it has a happy sales interface. But I saw a hardware summary request and apologize for not leaving one earlier:

Fenix is a

Rk3188 CPU
1gb RAM
HDMI interface
USB powered
TV stick/PC stick/what have you
1 USB port to attach devices
Teeny tiny Lil thing: you could actually mistake this one for a USB disk at first glance.

We are not trying to win speed contests with it and will make our application stack image available publicly for people who want to use other 3188s (at first) or later Intel TV sticks. There will be other application stack images, for !any different devices, freely available. What we do uniquely is get you the device without the hassle of flashing it. Once you have it we also provide the tools to flash it from our library of roms, submit your own Roms to the library, and flash our Roms to other compatible devices you own. We plan ROMs of the following oses/platforms:

"Real" Ubuntu
Ubuntu touch
Android 5.0 (it may initially be 4.4 and of course we will let buyers know in advance which version they will get)
We are also working on a 100% novel type of hosting using paired fenix devices that guarantees security in hardware and flashes the local fenix to one installed in a data center. Micro dedicated servers here we come!


Josef Davies-Coates Mon 9 Feb 2015

@joshuavial surprised you hadn't seen odoo before!

@george2 thanks for the links to LibreBoard and Taiga - great that there are finally some decent open trello alternatives! :) (and yes, I'd LOVE loomio integration with such tools too)


Josef Davies-Coates Mon 9 Feb 2015

@alandavison I'd like to submit some entries to your form, but it'd be really useful to see previous entries first - I really don't want to waste time entering projects that have already been added!


Josef Davies-Coates Mon 9 Feb 2015

@stevenclift https://github.com/wordsandwriting/lumen does group server type stuff pretty nicely too :)


Denjello Mon 9 Feb 2015

We tried http://openatrium.com/#!/ which is a Drupal based system.


Gray Mon 9 Feb 2015

I posted this in another discussion. Seems relevant here as well. Don't think there is a way to link to another post in Loomio so will try to copy/paste it here in full. Not trying to spampost. Just interested in other opinions on the software below.

RT: ......Re mapping the visual grammar of divergent online discussions. Just wanted to bring the following site to your attention.

It seems to do a pretty good job at melding mindmap, content management, and conversational divergence. Behaves almost like a visual tiddlywiki. (One of my favourite tools for many years)

Debategraph, is an Australian software project, seems free & open, designed for political discussions etc (co-founder, Peter Baldwin, is past Aus Federal MP & Cabinet Minister).

Do persist in exploring past the first page. The onboarding experience isn't that great. But if you start to play with the options, especially views, it has very diverse & comprehensive functionality. (Box views, show all works best for me)

Break out the sidebar into page view to better see content. Has lots of great functionalities but you have to dig and play a bit to discover them.

Again, not a great initial UX. Action links/buttons are often almost hidden in smallest text & obscure locations. Persist in playful exploration. There is a lot hidden in the fine details. (eg. Message flows are under the 'Stream' tab)

It's been around for a few years so a bit surprised it is not more well known. Seems to be still alive and in use but not overly active. Haven't quite worked out its 'business model' yet? Seems very user friendly. For example you can replace the site branding with your own, complete with URL redirection to your home page etc.

Site probably needs a little updating. Looks a little 'grandmotherly' with its pastel colour schemes etc. Morphing it with the proposal driven capability of Loomio would be very interesting.


Try looking at an active discussion to get a better feel.

You might like

An Open Source Pattern Language (re)generative of Commons


Civilization Project


Clark Davison Sat 25 Apr 2015

@josefdaviescoates Hi, sorry I have not been active for a while, some family and personal "problems" to deal with that have been very energy-sapping.

Here is the link to the back-end spreadsheet for you and anybody else who is interested.

BTW a single entry, even if it repeats a previously submitted entry would give you access to the results by default and it was intended that way so that repeated entries would have more "weight" when uploaded to a database...