Open App Ecosystem and Collaborative Technology Alliance

"What management do people think is needed there, other than the mutual coordination among the people who are doing the work?"

Fair question, Bob @bobhaugen. To me, management is just all about mutual coordination. I would turn it round, asking, what mutual coordination would be helpful? It may not be as easy to answer that question as it first seems. Two sides of any potential coordination may have different views about what would be helpful. Some people (as we know well) see coordination as "you fitting in to my plans" :smiley: Maybe other selfless folk see coordination as "tell me how I can fit into your plans". That's very kind of them.

And, no, I don't see the answer in some kind of central coordinating authority, telling people whose plans are to be prioritised. On the other hand, if no one talks about the relative merits of different incompatible plans, someone is going to end up wasting time, maybe a lot of time and energy, not to mention the frustration and sometimes discord involved (which I see as the main danger of "do-ocracy"). Here it is that I see the real challenge of working outside of hierarchical power structures.

I'm hoping for the wisdom of the collective to put in an appearance somewhere here. So, in turn, we need to nurture collectivity. That implies, to me, all sorts of very interesting things, to do with human relationships. Which, as I have suggested elsewhere, are an integral part of the "ecosystem".

I should probably add, that the Value Flows vocabulary is not yet finished. It's slow, patient work. If you want to help, this is a good place to get started:
https://gitter.im/valueflows/welcome

That (beyond mutual coordination among the people doing the work) is where we think standards and conventions fit in, for example, shared vocabularies and protocols.

@bobhaugen

I see a way to be more precise about the objectives about each action (OAE and CTA).

Everything related to the ecosystem of apps is OAE
Everything related to the people is CTA.

But maybe it's not a good idea, I can't tell.

Everything related to the ecosystem of apps is OAE Everything related to the people is CTA.

Problem is lots of people stuff will be about the apps work: planning, design issues, mutual coordination, wanting to get involved in actions, etc. Now happening in wekan, chat, and here. CTA would just add another channel and get in the way. I'd probably like to reduce the number of channels. I've seen a few complaints about being confused by all the channels.

I don't know yet what the CTA wants to do, or even if it wants to be revived, although I am seeing a lot of interest in a revival. But if it comes back to life, I have no idea what it will become. I don't think anybody really knew the first time, either. It was a happening, it just evolved. Lots of people met each other and discussed their projects, which was useful. I think more about outreach than actual collaboration.

Anyway, I don't think that formula is accurate, or will work. Need a more clear separation. I might misunderstand what you meant, of course, but if so, it still needs a more clear separation.

I clearly don't know what is the best (CTA or not). What I know : if CTA is recreated, it needs a concrete objective and connections with OAE. According to me, if @olisb wants to recreate it, he may do it, and see what happens.

the way I see it,

OAP is a practical project,

CTA is a meta-project, trying to make sense of the eco-system of which OAP is an essential part, and promoting cooperation and interoperability of commons technology. It could organize conferences bringing various people together to foster cooperation, looking for funds that could be invested in the more important projects, etc..

Michel

@bobhaugen

"CTA would just add another channel and get in the way."

I seriously hope not - in fact I hope it could do the opposite and unite a larger group in order that we can focus in on more productive, effective, collaboration than we are achieving through all our disparate channels...

Personally, I REALLY struggle to keep up with all these various groups Loomio, the mailing lists, the newsletters, the emails, my work which pays the mortgage, and having enough time for my loved ones...

I imagine others feel the same?

When i do have a few hours to put into working on the OAE, I'd like it be be on focused, productive work which I know is contributing to a much larger, well planned goal... As opposed to trying to catch up on all the various threads - like this one ;)

So one idea, which I'm not sure came across in my Proposal about launching the CTA, is that the CTA helps manage the various 'streams' and 'conversations' of subgroups which occasionally 'report back' to the wider community with their progress and findings, and call on the wider group for input into larger, more 'organisation-wide' decisions.

That way, we could all knuckle down and really get into the bits of work we are especially passionate about, whilst working with real autonomy, without having to worry that we are missing something important elsewhere, since the channels we need to monitor would have been reduced by the structure, decision making protocols and reporting practices of the CTA.

Make sense?

I got no problem with information from OAE work being reported in CTA. The idea of the CTA "managing" OAE work, or even making decision for the OAE, fills me with dread. I remember the endless discussions about whether the CTA should be open source or not, leading to something so wishy-washy as to be meaningless.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the CTA, but it was not an effective organization, nor did it even try to be. I'm not claiming tha OAE has been an effective organization, either, but a lot of work that spins in and out of the OAE has been done.

Lynn reminds me that there is already a thread aboout technical architecture.
https://www.loomio.org/d/C0V8UDqg/ecosystem-technical-architecture