A Forest Garden in a Box

Sounds good, thank yo Richard. We'll be talking about the ins and outs of the trial early next week, you're welcome to join in if yuo can.

Thanks Richard those look to be great possibilities with several in Queenswood. I see the arboretum is completed/full. Were you thinking of the orchard, new pollinator habitats &/or within the nature reserve?

Hi Jane, I see Queenswood as a place where a 'trial space' could be created to demonstrate the value of developing the value of Forest gardens as a solution to the climate emergency. I'm not too familiar with the long term management strategy of the Herefordshire Wildlife Trust and the park in general to say how a FG would figure in their specific plans. FGIB seems like a great opportunity to connect with The strong public engagement remit of the new Sustainability Centre and I'd like to be involved in discussions around how this could be achieved. There is an area set within the park where a volunteer project is developing a Permaculture approach to growing edibles and I thought a FG could augment the work going on there. When I visited last year I felt there was an opportunity to reach out to to visitors to the park by exchanging stories about how we can take a more natural approach to developing our own growing spaces whether it be a private garden, allotment or semi-commercial urban/village plot. This exchange could be done online via the park's website and social media and signage if funds are available. The idea being an introduction (or clarification) of how a FG works in a setting such as queenswood and people can keep in touch with the development of the FG site via comms/media. It also reinforces the message of needing to address the climate emergency whilst enjoying the benefits of growing edibles at home. FGIB can be a useful tool in connecting people to sources of information and inspiration via an agency such as Queenswood where stories are used to share experience and develop creativity.

Hello everyone.
We have been having an email discussion off Loomio to work up the plants to be contained in the guild for the FGiB mark 0 version. Kath Gavin of Hulme garden centre in Manchester and Tomas Remiarz have been leading this work for us, with other active contributors to date. We agreed to put the discussion out about plants in the box more widely on Loomio, recognising there may be many views and no right or wrong answer. Tomas is away for some weeks so may not respond for a while, and Kath Gavin will lead on the finalisation of the contents.
Paul posted a presentation at the start of this thread 2 months ago – see this for full background and slide 9 for list of plants. There has been a slight evolution of the plants since then so I am including the latest current thinking here. Follow the thread below and you will see 3 comments from the emails that I have added below. Your views are welcome. Kath will post a cut off date for further comments in due course. Thanks Richard.
Criteria
• Plants that many people will be familiar with
• That are easy to use
• That fill four layers within one growing season
• That provide crops across the seasons
Proposed plants to be included in the box;
• Tree layer: 3 fruit trees, apple/plum on semi dwarfing rootstock; cox orange pippin or Braeburn
• Shrub layer: 3 currants red-white-black
• Herb Layer: Mint, Lemon balm, Chives, Fennel, Mallow
• Ground cover: Strawberry “Marais de Bois (pink blossom)
• Seed mix: Marigold, Rainbow Chard, Poppy, Naturtium Tropaeolum minus “ladybird”

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 at 20:57, Richard Luff [email protected] wrote:
Hello everyone,
I come late to you all with this thought, I hope not disruptively late. I look at the list of plants in the proposed planting guild and have followed the threads these last weeks about the evolution of thinking and the careful choices made based upon the underlying rationale. My concern is this, the guild for the FGiB consists of fruit, herbs and nutrients. We want to promote Forest gardens for many reasons, but a significant part is being a solution to food and our relationship with food. We talk about crops. I wonder about proteins? Where are the tubars? Man/woman cannot live on fruit/herbs alone. How do we respond to this question which I believe will surely come?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Richard

Rosie Frost
Mon, 4 Nov, 23:49 (13 hours ago) Reply
to me, paul, Tomas, Kath, Jane

Thanks for this Richard, I had a similar thought and wondered what more could be offered on the perennial vegetable front that wouldn’t be disruptive to the concept?

Jane Morris
10:36 (2 hours ago) Reply
to me, Rosie, paul, Tomas, Kath, Karen
Dear Richard Thanks for your thoughts
Here are mine re

Next steps with guilds and modules
Fruit, herbs & salad leaves are not enough food and Chives, Garlic, Onions and other Alliums are not the only edible bulbs. Perennial vegetables are crucial as explored and published by Eric Toensmeier & Anni Kelsey. Vegetables do grow well in polycultures and in ‘Incredible Edibles’ patches in all sorts of spaces that show the way. No-dig or very occasional digging, however, is probably best practice in our Orchards and Parks, so the tubers we are used to are best in allotments, home and hospital/workplace gardens and ‘Incredible Edibles’ patches of polyculture.

Nevertheless, as we choose our dual/multi-purpose plants to complement the edible fruits and leaves of our FGs (and therefore FGiBs) the following seem easier to establish:
• Cardoon/Artichoke and Rhubarb;
• Camassias, Creeping/Eygptian/Welsh onion, Three-cornered Leek & Dog’s tooth violets;
• Solomon’s seal are lovely plants.
BTW Edible Sedum is perhaps the fleshiest as well as a tasty salad leaf and the Daylily has the fleshiest flowers with no damage to the ornamental show when eaten!

One tree doth not a FG make, but it is a start, I suggest the guilds build on
1. Apple and/or Pear cultivars preferably heritage (or super food) varieties;
2. Bullace, Damson, Cherry/Myrobalan Plum or Gage/Plum cultivars;
3. Hazel, Sweet Chestnut Walnut &/or other nut trees
4. Crab apple, Elder or Blackthorn

Rewilding that introduces Pine martens would give people a much better chance of eating Sweet Chestnuts, Hazel and Walnuts, instead of grey squirrels getting them.
Hazel nuts are getting more abundant and had a good year. Walnuts... Sweet Chestnuts... and Monkey Puzzle kernels eventually...

Let’s us discuss more of this on Loomio!
Gotta dash now.

Thanks for raising the query Richard and your valuable comments from the email thread Jane, Paul, and Jenny.

FGiB February soft launch - starting the project at the earliest opportunity, small scale, whilst the larger infrastructure is developed. There is much work to be done re. growers/suppliers and how the boxes are promoted, purchased, plants assembled (if from different sources) and distributed whilst also maintaining affordability, plus the literature to accompany the boxes. The pilot guild has been based on the designs that came from the Permaculture Convergence work circulated by Tomas , the plant choices being based on familiar plants and those that we (HCGC as an initial supplier of the complete box) can have available early next year. As the plant names have not been specified in the initial promotional literature, the guild can be amended with other species if a cost-effective source can be found in time. It can be tricky to get hold of many lower layer FG plants wholesale and I hope HCGC and other FGiB suppliers will be growing more stock themselves to increase availability and choice over the coming months/years. Please do suggest alternative designs for the herbaceous layers of the pilot box by the end of this month and I will endeavour to come up with the best collection that is logistically possible.
In the development of the guilds to suit different situations there is a balance to strike between diversity, yield and maintenance of the lower layers and the succession that will occur over time, whilst also taking into account whether the guild will be a stand-alone 3x3m or modular as part of a larger planting scheme.
I am looking at a low admin way of collecting ideas for future plant combinations as we develop the scheme (maybe a simple survey asking for site conditions and successful guilds grown, circulated to interested networks). I’m particularly keen to see nuts in future boxes.
All the best, Kath.

I wonder if this discussion is in danger of losing focus. Plant selection for the initial guild was with the specific idea to have a selection of easily grown, widely used plants that can be used and tested across the country. There aren't many perennial roots and tubers that fall into that category. Jerusalem artichokes speing to mind, they have their champoins and detractors - easy to grow and hard to get rid off, easy to cook but a lot of people don't like or can't digest them.
Staple carbohydrates, proteins and fats are harder to source in quantities in a forest garden. In my view they are best provided by comercial growers, and this is where annuals actually will continue to be important. That's what the clearings are for in a forest garden ... If we want to include proteins I'd go for beans or peas as annuals.
For the broader design there are literally hundreds of plants we could consider for every layer, including some protein and carbohaydrate crops. It would be good to have as wide a wide selection as is practical for the suppliers, to cover for all the different soil types, microclimates and design considerations. I'm happy to be involved with that process once I am back.
I'd like to suggest some patience with this design process. Rome wasn't built in a day, and to get this fairly complex design deserves a thorough approach. It could be quite demoralising if the whole thing just sinks because we felt the need to rush it through.

Thanks for this clarity Tomas and the wise words. They may be very useful to include as part of the information leaflet we insert into the 'box'. I'm sure you and Kath can agree a useful and broad collection when you are back in time for her business planning. Meanwhile we're trying to locate nurseries in Nottingham and in London so we have three sites for a soft launch in Feb, but also 3 sites to sell vouchers for Christmas.

Hi folks. Progress is looking great, well done all!
I may have missed this on here so apologies if this has already been suggested. Can I add a suggestion for an extra layer of education in the form of the mycosphere? Can the plants be 1) organically produced and 2) pre-innoculated with mychorizal funghi or supplied with a sachet to get things started where soil life may have been damaged through fungicide, pesticide or general human activity?

Hiya, I am sure this may have been thought through but is there consideration for insects? Not just bees but including...

This is partly about how you manage the garden and I wonder if some information about it being included in the kit would be useful.

I can see there are some insect friendly plants there, just wondering if consideration has been made to try and provide forage/flowers for as long as possible through the year?

Forage for pollinators is enhanced by Hazel, Elaeagnus ebbingei, and a diverse range of fruit & herbs that flower across the months. As Tomas & Kath say, however, the FGiB is a basic set with several functions. I expanded on food for folk as shared as that was perhaps the main shortfall. We'll share the article here when final edit done by FOE.