Loomio
Thu 30 Aug 2012

Welcome and Introduction to Loomio!

LHB
Loomio Helper Bot Public Seen by 106
LHB

Loomio Helper Bot Thu 30 Aug 2012

By engaging on a topic, discussing various perspectives and information, and addressing any concerns that arise, the group can put their heads together to find the best way forward.

This 'Welcome' discussion can be used to raise any questions about how to use Loomio, and to test out the features.

Once you are finished in this particular discussion, you can click the Loomio logo at the top of the screen to go back to your dashboard and see all your current discussions and proposals.

Click into a group to view or start discussions and proposals in that group, or view a list of the group members.

LHB

Loomio Helper Bot started a proposal Thu 30 Aug 2012

We should have a holiday on the moon Closed Thu 30 Aug 2012

To get a feel for how Loomio works, you can participate in the decision in your group.

If you're clear about your position, click one of the icons below (hover over with your mouse for a description of what each one means)

You'll be prompted to make a short statement about the reason for your decision. This makes it easy to see a summary of what everyone thinks and why. You can change your mind and edit your decision freely until the proposal closes.

Results
Agree - 0
Abstain - 0
Disagree - 0
Block - 0
0 people have voted (0%)
ST

Sean Tilley started a proposal Thu 30 Aug 2012

Loom.io as a Community Governance Platform Closed Wed 12 Sep 2012

Outcome
by Sean Tilley Tue 25 Apr 2017

Motion passed.

This is an initial test of Loom.io, a free software social governance platform. This week, we can test it out on some example items for decisions we would want the community to make.

If we like it, we can keep using it, and adopt it officially. It seems like a neat idea for a tool, and one of the founders contacted me about trying it out. Let's give it a try.

Results
Agree - 19
Abstain - 19
Disagree - 19
Block - 19
22 people have voted (8%)
ST

Sean Tilley
Agree
Thu 30 Aug 2012

We should try it.

ST

Sean Tilley Thu 30 Aug 2012

So far, this looks pretty nice!

FS

Florian Staudacher
Agree
Thu 30 Aug 2012

testing ... looks very nice ;)

FS

Florian Staudacher Thu 30 Aug 2012

I'm also very much for this moon holiday proposal... too bad it's already closed
:P

MS

maxwell salzberg
Agree
Thu 30 Aug 2012

TS

Tom Scott
Agree
Thu 30 Aug 2012

this is a very beautiful app.

AA

Alex Andrews Thu 30 Aug 2012

This seems like a good idea, basically a distributed form of consensus decision making. Gonna try a no.

AA

Alex Andrews
Disagree
Thu 30 Aug 2012

The app is pretty young. Though I like it - can one time the discussion period? This is the main problem with IRL consensus. Endless discussions!

AA

Alex Andrews Thu 30 Aug 2012

Ahhhh I see the discussions can be timed, but it wasn't clear on this page. BUT it means I can change my view and see how this works.

AA

Alex Andrews
Agree
Thu 30 Aug 2012

Looks good!

S

SleepyDaddySoftware
Agree
Fri 31 Aug 2012

Looks good.

CB

Chris Blount
Agree
Fri 31 Aug 2012

BO

Billy O'Connor Fri 31 Aug 2012

Looks good, I like the election/vote counting api.

JH

Jonne Haß Fri 31 Aug 2012

Looks quite good, altough I somewhat miss the possibility of competing proposal like there are available in LiquidFeedback for example. Or did I overlook it?

DM

Devendra Mahra
Agree
Fri 31 Aug 2012

We can try it

T

twain
Agree
Fri 31 Aug 2012

T

twain Fri 31 Aug 2012

Why it uses google analytics? In my opinion thas evil software... Better use Piwik...

BO

Billy O'Connor
Agree
Fri 31 Aug 2012

I like the code base, it's got a few bugs(My groups show all groups), for instance, but I think we should try it.

HF

Hans Fase
Agree
Sat 1 Sep 2012

awesome!

JR

Jason Robinson
Agree
Sat 1 Sep 2012

Yeah something is needed and this seems to fulfil the most important feature which is voting :)

F

Flaburgan Sat 1 Sep 2012

It's free software so we can deploy an instance of it on our server. So we are independant, like (Jakob, this solve the google analytics issue I agreed about)

ST

Sean Tilley Sat 1 Sep 2012

Actually, I've proposed Piwik to the team here, and they said they'd be happy to switch, provided we can point them in the right direction with integration.

JH

Jonne Haß
Abstain
Sun 2 Sep 2012

Hmm, so there isn't even a "Proposal decided, do it now!" kind of view.

A

altruism Sun 2 Sep 2012

How difficult would it be to bring the whole Lommio code into Diaspora?

A

altruism Sun 2 Sep 2012

Okey Lommio have discussions and voting, imho it has to do much more than that to make it useful as a governance platform.

RDB

Richard D. Bartlett Mon 3 Sep 2012

Hi there peoples! Thanks for adding me to your group. I'm one of the people developing Loomio, I do a lot of the comms and community management stuff (basically anything that doesn't involve coding).

It's been great to see the way that your crew has engaged with Loomio right off the bat, we've been getting some useful feedback.

Just a few points regarding some of the concerns some of you guys have had...

  1. Google Analytics - I raised a discussion based on feedback from Jakob [http://loom.io/discussions/637] and one of our devs has volunteered to switch us over to Piwik. So hopefully that will be happening soon.

  2. Concurrent/competing proposals - We've been thinking about this for a while, but we haven't implemented it yet because we want to make sure we get it right. We've just started a discussion about the feature, so if any of you want to get involved, feel free to request membership to the Loomio group (http://loom.io/groups/3) and get involved in the discussion (http://loom.io/discussions/638)!

  3. Proposal Outcomes (e.g. "The group has decided to go ahead with this proposal") - We're currently working on this feature and will be deploying it in our next release.

I'm really stoked to have Diaspora in the building, loving the feedback so far. Keep it coming!

A

altruism
Disagree
Mon 3 Sep 2012

Lommio have discussions and voting, imho it has to do much more than that to make it useful as a governance platform. I guess we do not wanna add big features to Lommio ourselves. Features like alternative proposals, prio, estimations, and workflow.

RDB

Richard D. Bartlett Mon 3 Sep 2012

@altruism from my experience with collective decision making on- and off-line I would say that good governance comes from a combination of process and culture. Processes (or features, if you're comparing apps) are only as good as the culture they are deployed in.

So while it is important to evaluate the feature-set of different platforms, also consider how you will communicate the culture around how these features will be used in your environment. I.e. each feature has the potential to add a UX tax that makes your app progressively less accessible to new users. I'm not sure how relevant that is to your specific use case I just like ranting about group process at any given opportunity :P

If you want a fairly comprehensive list of other apps to look at, check the "Related Tools" sidebar of the blog: http://loomio.org/blog

A

altruism Mon 3 Sep 2012

Richard, thank you for the comment. "So while it is important to evaluate the feature-set of different platforms, also consider how you will communicate the culture around how these features will be used in your environment." I totally agree, and that is true for any platform we choose. But having said that, does this mean that Loomio will never have more features because you do not want to make it "less accessible" for new users?

ST

Sean Tilley Mon 3 Sep 2012

@Altruism: Actually, I'm pretty sure they already have several useful features in the works.

RDB

Richard D. Bartlett Mon 3 Sep 2012

There are a lot of features coming down the line, we're just careful to put them through scrutiny and user-testing before deploying any code.

This discussion about how to implement concurrent proposals will give you an idea of what that scrutiny looks like: http://loom.io/discussions/638

Our development process is a work in progress, if you're interested there's a little story on the blog showing what our paper prototyping and user testing looks like: http://loomio.org/blog/project-update-user-testing-paper-prototypes/

A

altruism Mon 3 Sep 2012

Richard, "There are a lot of features coming down the line", that is great because simple is nice, but not to simple. I guess then that the argument that each feature has the potential less accessible to new users is not scaring nor stopping neither of us :)

A

altruism Mon 3 Sep 2012

Richard, let me add to that, in my opinion the new-user-problem should be managed with abstraction layers and configuration. Software should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

A

altruism Mon 3 Sep 2012

Loomio looks nice Richard, I like what it does, but as someone already said, it is pretty young. I'm sure you guys/gals are great and given some more time Lommio will be excellent. Do not take my vote as I think that Loomio sucks, because I do not.

M

movilla
Agree
Mon 3 Sep 2012

In principle is fine. If you need something more complex we can always move.

JH

Jeremy Huffman
Agree
Mon 3 Sep 2012

I like it. I think it will do what is needed and it is great that the devs are listening to our feedback.

AX

adri xador
Agree
Fri 7 Sep 2012

i like it.

G

groovehunter Sat 8 Sep 2012

To find solutions and decisions there exists great methods and nowadays also more and more tools. To weigh up between three and more ways to go simple votings are imho not sufficient. Have you heard for example about http://www.metagovernment.org/wiki/Systemic_Consensus - we use it in our NGO supporting basic democratic economy. You can try http://www.konsensieren.eu/ai2aoiquv UI in german

G

groovehunter Sun 9 Sep 2012

I asked loom.io team about their plans for other voting algorithms and they said they have no plugin architecture (like us :p) . So new features cant be added easily, this is a downside.

LP

Lennart Prelle
Agree
Tue 11 Sep 2012

BB

Brent Bartlett
Agree
Tue 11 Sep 2012

So far, so good!

A

altruism
Abstain
Tue 11 Sep 2012

Lommio have discussions and voting, imho it has to do much more than that to make it useful as a governance platform. I guess we do not wanna add big features to Lommio ourselves. Features like alternative proposals, prio, estimations, and workflow.

DY

Dave Yingling
Abstain
Wed 12 Sep 2012

It is OK for discussions and simple voting. But maybe that's enough at this point. I am concerned we will outgrow it quickly.

SH

Steven Hancock
Agree
Wed 12 Sep 2012

T

tortoise Thu 13 Sep 2012

I actually like Loom.io as an open forum for anyone to say whatever they want.

I am not for Loom.io if there will be hard controls laid down against members to speak up. I don't think that works at all given the history we already know.

I agree with Altruism that there is more to governance than discussion and voting on proposals.

I also agree with GH that we understand what governance procedures are and tools that have been created that support what is required for governance-made-easy. (or just easier).

That said, Loom does have value. I really like it. I've had quick and friendly responses when I submit feedback to them and I like that a lot! I want to support their efforts! (You hear me, loomaniacs?)

Having said that, there is still some maturity the tool requires to being us the full length of what we want to do.

T

tortoise
Agree
Thu 13 Sep 2012

Let's try it! I am for it, but not as an end-all solution. Perhaps the Loom devs will be responsive to our requests for tools we wish for at our fingertips here? If we use it, we should not constrain others' speech. Github, yes; Loom, no.

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 26 Sep 2012

So what's up with this? Closed 14 days ago but no outcome has been specified? I tend to like this tool, but I'm just making my first baby-steps on this platform. But proposals need to be closed, outcomes set and taken into action.

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 26 Sep 2012

In the discussions overview I can't seem to find any indicators about the status of a discussion.

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 26 Sep 2012

Can I get mail notifications for specific discussions? On the first look, it looks like loomio needs some more work...

T

tortoise Wed 26 Sep 2012

@Wilhelm: welcome to the group!

Loom.io is in an alpha stage, so to respond to your observation, there are some things still missing from the tool, but the Loom.io dev team there is a new release coming very soon.

The tool is not meant to be a hard and fast "covenant", but a tool for testing how people feel or think about something. This may be why you won't find specific outcomes if they are missing.

We are learning as we go. So please take a little extra time to take it all in before you comment too pointedly. It may be the answer is in a different discussion.

Cheers

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 26 Sep 2012

@madamephilo: yes, I'm just learning too. Find this very exciting. Wasn't intending to spread a bad mood but rather underline the fact, that I think without focussing on outcome and conversion of things an opinion tool isn't that good. So the fact that, just recently, the outcome field was added, might point out, that loom.io might serve as organizing outcome as well.