Re-Launching the CTA - Proposal closes 19.08.17

Ok with me. Sounds like we 3 (at least!) agree ;)

"I wonder if you can find some language that gets the idea across but does not smell so "it's-our-club-and-you're-not-in-it"?"

Hopefully it doesn't smell of that too much!?? It would be an open club, free for anyone to join (as long as they agree to the principles and values).

Just FYI, I always had that "club" sense from the CTA from the beginning - it was started by a group that felt close to each other socially, while as an older female, who is also not at all interested in or suited for being an entrepreneur, and perhaps a bit farther out on the "principles and values" side, I didn't fit very well. There was a certain in-group hip-ness feel to it that I am perhaps too sensitive to.

Just a bit of feedback to help your general understanding, I'm not personally bent out of shape, and look forward to collaborating with everyone involved. :) I also haven't studied the new document carefully enough yet to see if any of that feeling comes out in the doc - so this is a historical comment at the moment. I'll make time in the next few days to do so.

" I also haven't studied the new document carefully enough yet to see if any of that feeling comes out in the doc - so this is a historical comment at the moment. I'll make time in the next few days to do so."

Thanks Lyn I hope it comes across as more inclusive than you describe the past...
It is certainly meant to be very inclusive.

Without adopting a definitive personal stance, I want to indicate some potential issues regarding the idea of "relaunching the CTA".

Collaborative Technology Alliance was a specific project, and network, created in Nov 2015 through a union of two prior initiatives by Edward West and Ishan Shapiro. The public was openly invited to join CTA in this rather popular Medium post by Edward. (I'm one of ten folks thanked/acknowledged by Edward at the end of that article.) Edward invited people to join a specific CTA Hylo group. Note that there was tension sometimes related to Edward being Hylo's CEO, as well as some technical inconsistencies and shortcomings in the platform.

To the best of my knowledge, everything that anyone has ever labeled "CTA" was discussed either directly or indirectly in association with that specific CTA Hylo group. For several months from Nov 2015 onward, it was IMO a quite fertile ground for cross-pollination of varied ideas. (It still exists, too, but currently seems inert.)

We had a specific collaborative authorship directory at https://cta.hackpad.com/ . Some useful stuff there IMO.

Anyway, here's my point: I'd bet that Edward West and some other people still feel like CTA is mostly or essentially their project, even though they held no coercive authority over most related discussion and activity. And if so, that's okay with me.

Frankly, I personally wouldn't want to try to re-launch CTA without the direct blessing of other people (including Edward, Ishan and Connor Turland) who worked much on it before. Much potential IMO for confusion, and some potential for harmful conflict.

Hi @gregorycassel

Thanks for your thoughts. I should have explained, I have been in conversation with Edward West, who is busy with Hylo, but has read and agreed with my / our proposal to re-launch the CTA.

  "Frankly, I personally wouldn't want to try to re-launch CTA without the direct blessing of other people (including Edward, Ishan and Connor Turland) who worked much on it before. Much potential IMO for confusion, and some potential for harmful conflict."

I have also reached out to @ishanshapiro about the seal, but not heard back yet. I would love to have his thoughts as I recognise and massively value the work he put in... haven't seen him here in a while tho so if anyone else knows how to contact him / what he's up to these days that would be great?

I think I've seen @connorturland in these threads occasionally and again, would massively value his input. Anyone know how to contact him / what he's up to these days?

Having co-founded The Open Co-op https://open.coop in 2004 and run the OPEN 2017 Conference in London in February, Edward seemed to think I would be well placed to work on this re-launch, and I sensed he would be happy to see it evolve without his direct involvement, as he is so busy with Hylo.

Edward and I are overdue another catch-up which was intended to cover more on strategy, but I doubt any of 'founders' of CTA v1 would be against a re-launch which builds on their work... if they are, hopefully this proposal will bring that out, and we can decide what to do to move forward.

Best
Oli

Thanks for the added context @olisb . I knew that someone had referred to being in touch with Edward, but wasn't sure who it was.

Well, I'm open-minded about potentially relaunching CTA, and I'm also open-minded about potentially connecting OAE to CTA in some way(s). However, the devil (or god) is always in the details. Before getting closely involved, I would want to see any specific guidelines or rules for governance of a specific project, network or group agent.

I share some but not all personal links in these comments. Anyway, I try to be very technical and precise in such contexts, because of my previous experiences in some ethical and legal controversies.

@draft 's useful post:

https://www.loomio.org/d/8RT3JfyU/open-app-ecosystem-and-collaborative-technology-alliance

should help clarify my thinking of how the CTA and the OAE are related :)

as he put it:

The objective of the OAE is to create a suite of connected apps.
The objective of the CTA is to gather people that creates this kind of apps

You could add that:
The CTA project manages the development of the OAE.

The point of my proposal is to build on all the original work of the CTA, since much of the background work has already been done (they even have the seal :) ) and to try and avoid more isolated groups starting afresh, so we cab build a bigger, more effective collective, which is easy for people to understand, and get involved in!

I think you're bang on about needing rules and guidelines, but hopefully the
Principles and values section in the proposal (again, taken from previous CTA work, they are not my words) are good enough to get us going, in terms of who can join the CTA.

The CTA project manages the development of the OAE.

No.

The OAE has always been an independent project, peer of OAE, with its own history and principles and emphases, which are not opposed to those of the CTA, but are not the same, either.

And no, I can't really speak for the OAE, either, it has never had any governance or real organizational form. It started in Enspiral, but Enspiral as an organization never really got behind it, it was always (and still is) a few enthusiastic people from Enspiral.

See also https://www.hylo.com/p/23634

The CTA project manages the development of the OAE.

I would add that the CTA doesn't manage any projects now. Let's wait and see if there is a solid CTA relaunch, and see what the organization looks like, before talking about joining forces in any way.

Actually, the only project I remember the CTA managing was something that Edward funded and Connor was coding on, but the decision to initiate and the management was all done behind closed doors, as far as I know. Or perhaps that was not a CTA project, I'm not sure. In any case, there is not exactly a track record there.

I am quite comfortable managing our own project(s) as peers.

The OAE is feeling its way into existence and imo showing promise as becoming something real. Why is this a good time to complicate it with something that is not even active? People who agree with where the OAE is going should just join the OAE and get to work!

P.S. I am not against people re-launching the CTA by any means. I am against any connecting of the CTA and the OAE organizationally at this stage.

P.S. besides that Hylo thread about the difficulties in CTA collaboration I mentioned above:
https://www.hylo.com/p/23634
here's one that is more about OAE:
https://www.loomio.org/d/Ftyjx3Xg/what-are-the-aids-and-blocks-toward-collaborating-on-an-open-apps-ecosystem-

Let us learn some lessons and figure out how to do this stuff better.