Loomio
Sat 31 Aug 2013

Make podmin e-mail public

F
Flaburgan Public Seen by 133

I was working on personalizing my pod today, and I wanted to put the e-mail used to signal a problem on the home page. It was at the bottom of the page and I thought I should put it in the footer. I created a PR doing that, but Jonne pointed that it can be possible that podmins don't want their email public.

What do you think? Is that a problem? This address is used to point problems to podmins. Some problems need to be reported without having to log in. Do you agree to see your podmin email public ?

G

goob Sat 31 Aug 2013

I'm not a podmin yet, but I'm planning to become one, and I wouldn't want my email public.

Even for those who don't mind, if their email address is en clair on the home page, which can be seen without logging in, it could be harvested by spammers.

I'd think a form would be better, which can be filled in and which will reach the podmin, but which doesn't involve the email address being made public.

F

Flaburgan Sat 31 Aug 2013

The form is not a solution against spam, and seriously, after spending a whole evening sending mails to journalists to inform them about the anniversary, I can say it : I HATE CONTACT FORMS. They never work, you never know if the message will really be received, it's horrible.

Remember @goob, the e-mail is the one used to support users, not your personal one. It's podmin@diaspora-fr.org for me.

JR

Jason Robinson Sun 1 Sep 2013

The email is already public? At least on my pod it's just a button with a mailto: link.

Personally I would make it a requirement for pods to specify a contact email and other details of the podmin - but that's just me :)

JH

Jonne Haß Sun 1 Sep 2013

@jasonrobinson hmm, where can logged out users see it?

JR

Jason Robinson Mon 2 Sep 2013

@jonnehass good point - didn't read things well enough my bad.

I agree a way to contact the podmin in problem cases should be given even if not logged in. So I think this is towards the right direction.

But of course if we do pull this is - a warning should be sent to podmins to make sure they have the email set up that they are ok with to display. It's so easy setting up a separate account for the pod that I don't think "I don't want my email to be visible" is a very good argument.

O

OpenLifeChallenge Mon 2 Sep 2013

I don't think that the podmin's e-mail should be public, however a contact form should be possible to implement, mainly to reduce the risk of spam for our beloved podmins.

M

movilla Mon 2 Sep 2013

Mmmm maybe... https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/blob/develop/config/diaspora.yml.example#L351

#userspod_podmin_email: 'podmin@example.org'
#public_podmin_email: 'anotherpodmin@example.org'

R

Ravenbird Tue 3 Sep 2013

I think a contact form with a captcha will be the best way. And there is also the webmaster@domain adress.

JR

Jason Robinson Tue 3 Sep 2013

@movilla I don't see why there should be two podmin emails if the podmin email is separate from the podmin user account anyway? It's just a contact address - podmins can use webmaster@domain address if they want.

Ravenbird - domain admins don't automatically set up a webmaster address even though it is recommended. That cannot be trusted.

I'd say we vote on form vs email. It's opt-in anyway for podmins.

F

Flaburgan started a proposal Tue 3 Sep 2013

Visitors should be able to contact podmin by e-mail without being logged Closed Thu 12 Sep 2013

Outcome
by Flaburgan Tue 25 Apr 2017

We will not put the e-mail public

It's important to be able to contact the podmin to point a problem. And problem can be "I do not success to sign in or to register", "invitation link doesn't work"... and in these cases, the user is not logged in, that's why he has to have a way to contact the podmin directly.

I propose to use e-mail and not a contact form because contact form are always limited (no attachment, no information about the reception of the message...)

This implies to put the podmin contact e-mail public. The e-mail is already accessible to every user, it's definitely not a private one. We just have to be careful with spam.

Agree - 13
Abstain - 8
Disagree - 13
Block - 1
35 people have voted (12%)
F

Flaburgan
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

JR

Jason Robinson
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

+1 for reasons stated below. Podmins opt-in to put a email even now (note, not their own email necessarely), so people shouting "privacy!!" have no argument there :)

JH

Jonne Haß
Abstain
Tue 3 Sep 2013

S

SuperTux88
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

R

Roger
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

not a podmin but I think this is the way to go as long as spam is not a problem

ST

Sean Tilley
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

M

Merle
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

SM

Seth Martin
Disagree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

I want this but only as a contact form, possibly with captcha.

N

NicoAlto
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

D

diasp_eu
Disagree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

Yes but encrypt email address

PP

Patrick Pankotsch
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

A

aj
Abstain
Tue 3 Sep 2013

i like Movilla's idea

two opt-in settings for this

"userspod_podmin_emal" and "public_podmin_email"

S

SADMAN
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

ACP

Andrei Cristian Petcu
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

Simple way to contact podmin will bring a better service

EK

Emmanouel Kapernaros
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

as log as we think very well anti-spamming methods.

QD

Quentin Dufour
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

Diaspora pod are not designed to host millions of people, it could be a great start point to people who need a real person help and to join the network !

QD

Quentin Dufour
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

Diaspora pod are not designed to host millions of people, it could be a great start point to people who need a real person help and to join the network !
Podmin could create a special email address if they are affraid of spam ?!

R

Ruxton
Abstain
Tue 3 Sep 2013

Simple solution, flick the PR to a user configurable option. As a podmin i understand the need for it, but right now would HATE for you to merge that without some config option that defaulted to NOT showing it.

F

fabianrbz
Abstain
Tue 3 Sep 2013

maybe we can add a "feedback" or "contact the pod admin" form, instead of showing the email address

EG

Erwan Guyader
Abstain
Tue 3 Sep 2013

This is probably a good idea for public pods but I don't see any reason to force it on people hosting private pods.

M

movilla
Abstain
Tue 3 Sep 2013

We introduced a configuration option for that. Like this https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/pull/4483#issuecomment-23713811 (Ruxton) or two opt-in settings for this "userspod_podmin_emal" and "public_podmin_email (could be the same email).

E

Elessil
Agree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

S

StarBlessed
Disagree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

See my post below.

S

StarBlessed
Disagree
Tue 3 Sep 2013

See my post above

DB

Dee Baumdeesaster
Agree
Wed 4 Sep 2013

G

goob
Disagree
Thu 5 Sep 2013

I agree that it would be good to have a means for people to contact the podmin when not logged in, but I don't think making an email address public is the way to do this - not without the podmin making a free choice to do this, at any rate.

DM

David Morley
Disagree
Thu 5 Sep 2013

I think this just adds spam, I also think the link to contact podmin should just send them a message not email. I think if unauthed contact is desired it should use the existing messaging system but modify it to allow unauthed contact to the podmin.

S

Strubbl
Abstain
Thu 5 Sep 2013

MM

Marek Marecki
Abstain
Fri 6 Sep 2013

O

OpenLifeChallenge
Disagree
Sat 7 Sep 2013

I believe it should be available to contact podmins without being logged however I think it can be very spam-vulnerable if the e-mail is publicly viewable. Should definitely be some way of non-logged contact but a public e-mail is not safe.

M

movilla
Disagree
Sat 7 Sep 2013

We introduced a configuration option for that. Like this https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/pull/4483#issuecomment-23713811 (Ruxton) or two opt-in settings for this "userspod_podmin_emal" and "public_podmin_email (could be the same email).

M

matl
Disagree
Sun 8 Sep 2013

EK

Emmanouel Kapernaros
Agree
Mon 9 Sep 2013

as long as we think very well anti-spamming methods.

L

lebarjack
Disagree
Wed 11 Sep 2013

This must not be mandatory and it must be protected against spam in case the podmin choose to show this email address.
I am not against contact forms with captcha as a first contact with the user.

AS

Anish Sheela
Disagree
Wed 11 Sep 2013

S

Sem
Disagree
Wed 11 Sep 2013

+1 for the contact form.

T

twain
Abstain
Wed 11 Sep 2013

TS

Tom Scott
Block
Wed 11 Sep 2013

I don't want to have to change my contact email so it doesn't "become public" underneath my own feet. Not all pods are created equal, not all of them are necessarily open for registration. A contact form is sufficient for most sites, why not ours?

TS

Tom Scott
Block
Wed 11 Sep 2013

edit: I blocked because I don't think this should be a "feature". Podmins are welcome to place their contact email on the front page, or not if they choose not to. We shouldn't force anyone to make their email public.

FS

Florian Staudacher
Disagree
Wed 11 Sep 2013

I don't think we need to disclose the admins email, even if it would be obfuscated. A form should be sufficient, and would only be possible when the podmin set his email in the config, anyway.

ST

Sean Tilley
Disagree
Wed 11 Sep 2013

I don't really see why a contact form that sends an email confirmation to the user after sending wouldn't get the job done. As stated by others, not all pods are community pods meant for everyone to join in on.

SM

Seth Martin Tue 3 Sep 2013

These are important e-mails that I need notification of right-away. I want to use my non-spam address which means that it must absolutely be a contact form.

EK

Emmanouel Kapernaros Tue 3 Sep 2013

My email hosting plan has only one email address. I would like not to have to addresses (one for public and one for logged in users).

I think it is a good thing to have a public email address for those not logged in or registered, but to consider spamming before implementing it.

SM

Seth Martin Tue 3 Sep 2013

I cannot believe you all are voting to force podmins to use an e-mail address that won't get checked for this otherwise great idea. This should be as a contact form.

S

StarBlessed Tue 3 Sep 2013

StarBlessed

I think while the idea of being able to contact the podmin directly for support is a must, I think that the originally posted idea is ill conceived, and not thoroughly thought out.

  1. Publicly exposing ANY email address turns that address into a defacto “Honeypot” for spammers
  2. Nobody likes Captcha’s

Is there any way we can come up with another form of contact? Perhaps an offline xmpp/jabber message? Or maybe a bitmessage?

JR

Jason Robinson Fri 6 Sep 2013

@goob the podmin has free choice - it is not compulsory to add your email to the configuration. Also you can add any email you want, maybe a separate email box.

G

goob Sat 7 Sep 2013

Jason, you're correct that this is the current situation. However, this proposal would seem to remove that free choice, and to make it compulsory for podmins to provide an email address at which they can be contacted.

We need to be careful not to put any more hurdles than there already are in the way of prospective podmins. If a podmin is automatically given an email address (e.g. podmin@podname.org) when they set up their pod, without them having to install an email server or anything, that could be a solution. Otherwise as part of setting up my pod I'd have to set up and maintain another email address, yada yada, it could be off-putting.

If the proposal is 'give podmins the choice to make their email available to non-logged-in people', that's something different entirely, but it doesn't appear to be that.

ACP

Andrei Cristian Petcu Wed 11 Sep 2013

Podmins can make a special email for issues. I don't see why it should be private.

JL

Jelle Langbroek Tue 17 Sep 2013

Hi, just to add something.
Why not give podmins the possibilty to add their contact info on podupti.me? We want poduptime more prominently available for new users, so why not extend it a bit?

ST

Sean Tilley Tue 17 Sep 2013

@jellelangbroek I like that a lot. :) Maybe it's something we can just encourage podmins to do?

JL

Jelle Langbroek Tue 17 Sep 2013

@seantilleycommunit That's a good idea. Just kiss ..principle.. ;)
But is there already a way to leave my contact details on podupti.me?

M

MatthiasM Fri 4 Oct 2013

Ok let's see: D* pods are the central elements and as they store the whole content unencrypted, the users must trust the podmin. So why not suggesting to make his mailadress public, as it is a good proof for trust, doesn't it?

In Germany for example, every webpage needs an legal impress, so we even have to publish an electronic way for contact.

SM

Seth Martin Sun 6 Oct 2013

@matthiasm The purpose of making the podmins e-mail published to everyone (even people that don't even use diaspora) is for support issues when a user cannot log in to select the mail:to link that the podmin is trusting actual users with. Making it public to everyone, including non-users defeats the purpose because the e-mail account will get so incredibly spammed that the podmin won't even see the legitimate support requests.

The only solution that I see remaining is a contact form.

F

Flaburgan Tue 8 Oct 2013

There is email at the bottom of each website. Spam is really not a problem, we have nice solutions against that. It's only a matter of "does the podmin wants to see his email public or not". We already voted about that anyway, so no need to continue to talk about it.

S

StarBlessed Sun 13 Oct 2013

Well here's just a final note from me on the subject regarding Spam.

My public facing website registration form, had upwards of 20-80 spam registrations daily, due to bots.

There is a way of cutting this down to practically nothing. And so far its working quite well.

The concept is this :
Have a normal form, that sends an email to the podmin (or nominated email address). Inside that form, have a field hidden in CSS. This field MUST remain blank, for the form to be successfully submitted. Otherwise it just rejects the content.

How this works:
Generally speaking, bots will just fill every field they find on a page with junk, to be able to submit the form. If there is a field, it assumes it MUST put something there. So placing a field inside a form that must remain BLANK, fools the bot into thinking that it must fill the field. Having it hidden in CSS means that a user will not see the field, and therefore not fill it out.

I've personally noticed a decrease in spam, of almost 98%.

It also more or less eliminates the need for a Captcha. Combine it with a Captcha, and its more or less perfect.

I still don't condone a public facing email address, or a form. But if we MUST have something facing the public, I would suggest a form with a field like this. Considering it also means we dont have to rely on captcha's, its 1 more google service we can drop.

F

Flaburgan Mon 4 Nov 2013

I have a very simple solution: robots.txt denies all. diaspora-fr.org is not known by search engines. No spam bot never reached my pod. My email is written directly on the first page, and I never receive any email from bots :)

JR

Jason Robinson Mon 4 Nov 2013

robots.txt only works when the spammer obeys rules - they can easily choose to ignore robots.txt ;)

V

Vostok Thu 7 Nov 2013

How about creating another e-mail different from the podmin's email? It would be used just in case of some users facing issues like if they cannot login for example.
This email could also be internally forwarded to the podmin email.
Of course the user also have the option to use the #help tag or other instead.

V

Vostok Thu 7 Nov 2013

I mean, of course the #help tag could be used only for an already logged in user.