Loomio

Announce Loomio on FB Belgium pirates closed group

JVO
Jan Van Opstal Public Seen by 397

Loomio has about 40 members, Belgium pirates now 499...

So let us be transparant and announce this platform to the other Pirates...

JVO

Jan Van Opstal started a proposal Wed 14 Sep 2016

Let's annouce Loomio on Belgium Pirates FB (closed group) ? Closed Sat 17 Sep 2016

Outcome
by Jan Van Opstal Tue 25 Apr 2017

If Liquid or Direct democracy is our goal.....

From 40 to more the 400 .....

Let's see action ..... let's see who cares.....

Loomio has about 40 members, Belgium pirates now 499...

So let us be transparant and announce this platform to the other Pirates...

( but voting only for pirate members who are complying the statutes )

Results
Agree - 8
Abstain - 8
Disagree - 8
Block - 8
9 people have voted (18%)
TF

Thierry Fenasse Wed 14 Sep 2016

a) Because Loomio was presented durnig the previous Spring 2016 Gent GA ... I thought it was already!?

b) ( but voting only for pirate members who are complying the statutes ) what do you mean?

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Wed 14 Sep 2016

Less then 10 % .... a new announcement could maybe stimulate to have more Pirates aboard.

b) Except for those who didn't need pay the 1€.... Only Pirates who did pay......

If we are look to get this platform as a permanent Assemble ....;-)

DR

Damiens ROBERT Wed 14 Sep 2016

I would say that even if we presented the tool at Ghent GA, remindind that the tool exists can't be harmful ! So I would be in favor of it.

DR

Damiens ROBERT
Agree
Wed 14 Sep 2016

TF

Thierry Fenasse
Agree
Wed 14 Sep 2016

But I really do not know who and how to do that : ( but voting only for pirate members who are complying the statutes ) :rabbit:

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Wed 14 Sep 2016

@ Thierry.... We can place it in the announcement .... such as .... only for paying members... And if Patrick Installé could verify or produce a list ?

JVO

Jan Van Opstal
Agree
Wed 14 Sep 2016

Let's get this drafted and call for more pirates to join

H

HgO Wed 14 Sep 2016

Is this proposal for the drafting zone or not? Because I am more than ok to announce this group on whatever social networks you want, but I disagree with saying that voting on Loomio is for members only :( This is clearly another proposition and it would need some discussions first.

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Thu 15 Sep 2016

why worry .... if you think this is important, you are free to make another proposition. Do it.

The reason why only restricting to pirates is clear.... Do we allow everybody to vote on the GA? No, because it is already restricted by the bylaws of the pirates. Why? if not we become vulnerable for sabotage ...

In the spirit of making this a counselling platform for the pirates, I do not see any reason why non pirates should have voting power...

TF

Thierry Fenasse Thu 15 Sep 2016

I propose to

  • simply post an invitation on facebook
  • accept all the join requests
  • accept their votes here on loomio

Because the 1€/member/vote does concerns the GA votes, note those Loomio members vote (if I'm right?).

Here on loomio, until now, this is a Permanent Assembly proposed to help pirates to bring some proposals to a vote during a GA.

To do that, they start on LVL1 > LVL2 > LVL3 > and after it, their proposal have to be voted by pirate members only during a GA.

V

Vincent Thu 15 Sep 2016

The way I see it, the permanent assembly is ment to make the GAs easier to manage: most of the objections and all of the debates must have been done before the GA. The online part of this process can be done on Loomio.

Therefore, I think it's not a big deal if non-members vote: the proposal will make it to the GA anyway, and the decision will be made there. But If you think it's better this way, so be it.

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Thu 15 Sep 2016

Fine for me.... so let's move on....HgO problem solved... ;-) thnks to Thierry and Vincent...

Someone .... Thierry ? can make a good text....
Explaining the procedure how to get logged in... 'on the different levels' or is their one time log in on all levels?

How the platform works?
Do and don't ?

SD

Sandrine Debatty
Agree
Thu 15 Sep 2016

V

Vincent
Agree
Thu 15 Sep 2016

Lets continue what we 've started in Gent's GA

H

HgO
Agree
Thu 15 Sep 2016

VD

Valerie D.
Agree
Thu 15 Sep 2016

cool invitation text! :thumbsup:

Z

ZeFredz
Agree
Thu 15 Sep 2016

JV

Jov Ver
Disagree
Fri 16 Sep 2016

I think the usage of this platform still needs further work in order to make it a platform if choice. I'm not against it. I only think it is too early to do so. Details need to be discussed first.

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Fri 16 Sep 2016

I would like todo translation work on the wiki. But wiki is not sending a confirmation email.... or I do not receive it.... Can you check this out Thierry ?

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Fri 16 Sep 2016

@ Jov Ver this platform is open for any proposal .... go ahead.... but you can't close the doors when the walls caved in ;-) ???

V

Vincent Fri 16 Sep 2016

@jovver Loomio been successfully used in the preparation of the previous general assembly. (see https://www.loomio.org/g/bksd2yaJ/pirates-be-permanent-assembly-lvl3-debating-zone) Its main virtue is to filter and polish the proposals that will be presented.

The tool is in place, what we need now is practice.

We are all aware that the two priorities of the next assembly are the website and the non-profit, but that doesn't mean we have to freeze all the other projects.
People want to talk about all sorts of topics, we'd better let them do it here or they might want to digress during the assembly. We sure don't want that, do we?

JV

Jov Ver Fri 16 Sep 2016

@janvanopstal and @vincent15 - I am not blocking things here huh? I'm merely disagreeing with broadcasting Loomio towards the wider audience.

My reason is what you say: we need practice before I believe we should make it more public. We indeed do not need to freeze other projects. Quite on the contrary. ;)

TF

Thierry Fenasse Fri 16 Sep 2016

Do it here https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/invitation but it seems that somone is on it right now.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Fri 16 Sep 2016

We need more people to practice and discover holacracy and the usage of Loomio.

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Fri 16 Sep 2016

I did add a sentence..... do I need to update-save this ?

TF

Thierry Fenasse Fri 16 Sep 2016

On a pad, every typing, deletion, move, format... is instantly registered and kept in the «whole history». So there is no need to save. You can just close it.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Sun 18 Sep 2016

So, can someone copy/paste the invitation on a Facebook post ? :kissing_smiling_eyes: :heart:

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Sun 18 Sep 2016

done

TF

Thierry Fenasse Sun 18 Sep 2016

Thank you! Now we just have to wait and see if some more of us are coming to discuss, propose, vote, etc here on Loomio.

VD

Valerie D. Tue 20 Sep 2016

And we need to make a guide explaning how all this should be used, and with "best practices"... mmmh could be a nice topic to discuss at the next lab on Saturday.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Fri 25 Nov 2016

FR: Est-ce qu'un modérateur de ce groupe, pourrait déplacer ce fil de discussion vers le groupe parent Permanent Assembly dans le but de supprimer ce sous-groupe Drafting Zone qui rend les choses plus compliquées que nécessaire. Merci

EN: Can a moderator of this group move this thread to the parent Permanent Assembly group in order to delete this subgroup Drafting Zone which makes things more complicated than necessary. Thank you

NL: Sorry, I do not speak Neederlands :crying_cat_face: