Loomio
March 7th, 2015 17:10

India's daughter and censorship

Pirate Praveen
Pirate Praveen Public Seen by 133

We should demand lifting the ban on India's daughter. It is violating fundamental right to free speech and expression.

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen March 7th, 2015 17:19

I propose the following draft.

Freedom of speech and expression is a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution of India. Ban on India's Daughter documentary (add links) is a violation of our fundamental freedoms. Supreme Court should take suo moto cognicense of the issue and lift the ban. We ask everyone to download the documentary, watch, share and show it to your friends (add link to torrent).

Suggest any changes to the draft.

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen started a proposal March 7th, 2015 17:24

embed India's daughter video on our front page Closed 10:04pm - Sunday 15 Mar 2015

There is no meaning to a right if we are afraid to excercise it. Add multiple sources and link to torrents.

Results
Agree - 3
Abstain - 0
Disagree - 0
Block - 1
4 people have voted (100%)
Vidyut

Vidyut
Agree
March 7th, 2015 17:26

My kind of move. Approve totally.

Akshay

Akshay
Agree
March 8th, 2015 04:46

i'm already maintaining a list of mirrors

Akshay

Akshay March 8th, 2015 04:54

Freedom of speech and expression is a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution of India. Ban on India’s Daughter documentary is a violation of our fundamental freedoms. The growing trend of banning anything that doesn't fit the orthodox mindset is horrifying. The reasons put forward for banning India's Daughter are juvenile. Supreme Court should take suo moto cognicense of the issue and lift the ban. A PIL has already been filed in Delhi Hight Court against the ban. We ask everyone to download the documentary, watch, share and show it to your friends.

Vimeo search
Dailymotion search
Kickass search
Magnet link

vik@hamara

vik@hamara March 8th, 2015 14:24

People will find it online due to all of the media coverage - but it's more important for people who are not online to see this movie.

I agree with the proposal, I wonder if we could also produce some DVD's

vik@hamara

vik@hamara
Agree
March 8th, 2015 14:24

vik@hamara

vik@hamara March 8th, 2015 14:24

And label those DVD's with the name of the latest bollywood hit :)

vik@hamara

vik@hamara March 9th, 2015 09:26

Dead Drops might also be worthwhile https://deaddrops.com/

vik@hamara

vik@hamara March 9th, 2015 14:15

Is this the first arrest? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/09/activist-arrested-for-showing-documentary-in-indian-village

Suggest hosting the page outside that legal jurisdiction

Akshay

Akshay March 9th, 2015 14:51

I don't understand.

If the interviews used in India's Daughter were not meant for commerical purposes, why block online streaming?
If the documentary puts India in a dim light among foreigners, why ban Indians from viewing it?
If it encourages rapists, why not let women watch?

Do we not deserve an explanation at least?

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen March 9th, 2015 14:57

@akshay the point is, they think they can get away with the ban. They will do even more bizarre things if we don't challenge them.

vik@hamara

vik@hamara March 9th, 2015 14:58

@akshay because all of those reasons are untrue. The documentary is disturbing to say the least, but the discussion it provokes is very necessary.

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen March 9th, 2015 15:21

Someone filed a PIL at Delhi High Court to lift the ban. I have read it somewhere that the director of the documentary will approach the Supreme Court. All we need to know is, the reasons sighted are not coming under the allowed exceptions to fundamental right to Free Speech. Even if all the reasons were true, still they don't have a right to ban the film.

Raju Devidas

Raju Devidas March 10th, 2015 11:43

Jackson Isaac

Jackson Isaac March 14th, 2015 16:26

I disagree with posting India's Daughter on the homepage.

At first it might seem correct that everyone must have freedom of expression, but what if something hurts someone (they too have the right to object).

But banning each and everything is not correct too (eg. AIB Knockout, it didn't hurt any person, their feeling, community as such).

When it comes to India's Daughter it is something on a very sensitive matter and this is something that is made by some foreign entity and it seems so scripted. They don't know about what happens in our country and they can't just go on making any documentary which is just SHIT.

Also the guy himself told, the docu is just fake and scripted (there was no tutor as such, and how come he knew what happened that day and which film they saw).

Just give it a thought, if tomorrow someone comes and tells something about you or your community, how would you react.

She was a part of our vast family, we won't stand with something that is against our family and actually with no actual base or reality in it.

Freedom means not doing anything that we want. Freedom comes with responsibilities and there must be some limit to do something and no one should cross the limits too far.

If they prove that the documentary is real and not scripted then they can telecast it or whatever they want to do. Otherwise, it is just not acceptable.

Jackson Isaac

Jackson Isaac
Block
March 14th, 2015 16:27

As I commented, I do not entertain any baseless or not to be real articles, or media to be shared on our page

Vidyut

Vidyut March 14th, 2015 16:47

Just want to point out that these are not political solutions, but acts of rebellion.

I voted in favor, because people seem to want it, and I don't have anything against it - why not? shrug. However deliberate distribution, etc seems like going overboard with the issue and not necessarily in a positive way.

We may be too small to even make a scene by banning. Will achieve little that questions the policies (or lack thereof) that are the issue.

There may be ways that influence policy rather than minuscule rebellious disruption (we don't have the reach to make impact with non-cooperation as political statement).

Eg: Telling people to use a proxy will let them see the film otherwise and putting that information on a page - getting around blocks - and linking to it permanently from somewhere on the front page (menu, sidebar, footer, somewhere) will make a statement against censorship as well. All censorship.

Or a wall of shame kind of thing with links to various banned stuff that we believe was wrongfully banned and people should access (as opposed to every link banned ever)

I do support the unbanning of the film, even though I agree that the film is problematic on several levels. Some more of the thinking in a piece I've done for Women Under Siege www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/indias-daughter-offers-the-first-real-challenge-to-indias-rape-culture

If we plan to develop political thinking, we need to brainstorm to find ways we can make a difference to the system, and not just go against it at will, because those who want to enforce bans have bigger numbers and far worse disruptions and we don't want to start this war. It weakens the concept of uniform law for all.

Vidyut

Vidyut March 14th, 2015 17:03

@jacksonisaac There are many problems with the film, but I think it is an important one for people to see, because of the reactions it has got on the quotes by rapist and lawyer.

What they say is so ordinary and we have heard it so many times and look who is saying it. Javed Aktar nailed it "unko pata lagne do ki woh rapist ki tarah sochte hain". THAT is a slap on our social values that compensates for a lot of quality issues with the film.

Also, I disagree that I belong to a "community" that would have a problem with convicted rapists being shamed by simply making their hideous views public. Just saying that your "we" does not include me. No idea of others.

I do think a big deal is made of rapes and gang rapes by strangers and the whole issue of rape is sort of skewed to fixate on only those - which is a problem with dealing with women's rights, because that is barely 1% of the problems women face in India.

Akshay

Akshay March 14th, 2015 17:37

Vidyut, do you seriously think that documentary is about one rape, or even rape at all?
All I saw in that documentary was the issue of women's freedom. You're now thoroughly confusing me. What is wrong with focussing on rapes, unless you think that the solutions to rapes are different from the solutions to 99% of problems women face in India?

Vidyut

Vidyut March 14th, 2015 18:02

@akshay violent rapes by strangers are less than 1% of all rapes. And the solutions, even for other rapes are different. For example, in Delhi, 40% of "rapes" are parents filing case against daughter's consensual lover that they disapprove of. Another 25% are consensual sex on the promise of marriage, but not marrying. Your phone apps and such aren't going to do shit to fix this, nor are protests and amendments to laws. You need social reform for the first - that accepts women's sexual freedom. For the second, you need counselling and sex education that helps avoid deals such as "sex if you will marry me" to begin with. Beyond that, there are rapes by people in authority, which is a different dynamic. There are rapes by people known to the victim like family, friends and neighbours. NONE of the protections for strangers raping girls out of the blue will work with them.

Oh. And marital rape is completely legal as long as you don't engage in "unnatural sex". Pedophilia with girls is legal too, if you marry them first.

And rape actually is a far smaller problem in India than where we import our women's rights rhetoric from. Domestic Abuse is way bigger as is economic exploitation of women. We haven't even talked of all that.

Hope you understand some of what I meant now. It is a largish subject.

Akshay

Akshay March 14th, 2015 18:07

everyone must have freedom of expression, but what if something hurts someone (they too have the right to object).

Objection != suppression
Also watch this at least once https://youtu.be/jw3dDbc1BHE

AIB knockout also probably hurt some people. Why shouldn't it be banned? Meanwhile, I get hurt by Bollywood movies all the time. Can they be banned too?

that is made by some foreign entity and it seems so scripted. They don’t know about what happens in our country and they can’t just go on making any documentary

Why do you think foreigners can't understand what happens in our country? What is the basis of this statement? By your logic Mahatma Gandhi couldn't have lead Satyagrahas in South Africa, or Mother Teresa couldn't have done nursing in Kolkata.

Also the guy himself told, the docu is just fake and scripted (there was no tutor as such, and how come he knew what happened that day and which film they saw).

Which parts are lies? Let the guy friend himself describe the night. What do you think would have been differently described? Probably the movie name. What else?

Just give it a thought, if tomorrow someone comes and tells something about you or your community, how would you react.

I'd see if they make sense and either disagree with them or try to change my community.

She was a part of our vast family, we won’t stand with something that is against our family and actually with no actual base or reality in it.

So you support incestuous rape and murder but not foreign reporting of the same?

If they prove that the documentary is real and not scripted then they can telecast it or whatever they want to do. Otherwise, it is just not acceptable.

Since when is the onus of proof on the accused? You accuse someone, you substantiate.

Just want to point out that these are not political solutions, but acts of rebellion.

I guess pirate party would have pursued a political solution. it's probably true that directly violating laws would bring more harm than good. Wall of shame is a beautiful idea. It'll give a broader perspective rather than people trying to nitpick on each item.

The thing with india's daughter is that it feels so unfair to let it remain banned. So much that praveen and I were discussing about the chances of being arrested because of embedding the video and how even a day in jail is worth it (not more days though :D)

Akshay

Akshay March 15th, 2015 05:36

@vidyut I wrote about the problems with rape statistics here: http://qr.ae/jWCBH

You need social reform for the first - that accepts women’s sexual freedom. For the second, you need counselling and sex education that helps avoid deals such as “sex if you will marry me” to begin with.

Is there not a process called sensitization that precedes social reform or counseling? The most discussed part of the documentary was the statements about the girl roaming around with a guy friend in the night. Don't you think this puts the discussion directly on women's freedom and maybe even sexual freedom (not in any way implying the relationship between nirbhaya and her friend was sexual)

Domestic Abuse is way bigger as is economic exploitation of women. We haven’t even talked of all that.

Valid. Maybe we should have a section dedicated to gender equality on Indian pirates website. What do you think? There we can document the various situations where gender makes a difference.